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  Click here to go to the first Atlas Reactor Team post in this thread.   Thread: PTS Season 5 Now Live! Feedback Discussion

  1.   This is the last Atlas Reactor Team post in this thread.   #1
    Community Manager
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    PTS Season 5 Now Live! Feedback Discussion

    PTS is available: 1/23/2018

    Help test Season 5 and the new Firepower Freelancer, Vonn the Scion of Ice, live now on PTS.

    Many balance changes have been made to Frontlines and a few other Freelancers. Please play and then leave your feedback here.

    Yes, you can stream, make videos and other content but keep in mind things are subject to change before Season 5 comes out.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Minor typo stuff:

    In the stats screen following a match, Icebreaker's description refers to Catarangs. Ice Aegis' entry refers to damage dodged and dealt.

    Icy is spelled "Icey" in Icebreaker and Ice Aegis. (And Icebreaker's "Icey Veins" mod.)

    Cold Snap's description says "Gain [RewardOnHit_PerTarget] energy per enemy hit."

    Qualitative:

    He's fun. It's nice to see another dashless firepower. There's a bit of tension between staying at range and being close enough to move Polar Vortex around.

    It would be nice if there were a 1 point Cold Snap mod; all of them are 2 or 3 points.

    He's showing up as a Wildcard in freelancer selection, but his bio says Hyperbotics.

  3. #3
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    I'll limit this post to bugs and issues, and then follow up with gameplay suggestions post later.

    2.
    -Energy text error
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...98/unknown.png
    -Possible bug: Dmg proc is affected by cover (5 normal, 2 cover). (Suggestion if not a bug: Damage should not be affected by cover.)

    4.
    - Change skill description to "60 shields **until end of next turn**" to more clearly reflect actual duration.
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...56/unknown.png
    - Change mod description to "Gain haste until end of turn."
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...56/unknown.png

  4. #4
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    Found a bug

    Cryocore detonation can detonate twice, if damage is applied in different phases.

    Replcation:
    Turn 2: mark target with Vonn primary
    Turn 3: hit target with a dash (say Elle or Kaigin), hit target again with Vonn, Core detonates twice once in dash phase and once in blast

    Attempting to pop it multiple times in dash phase failed, so I assume this is tied to the phase itself.

  5. #5
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    So well, as promised here is my wall of text feedback on the PTS changes and hopes for the new season. After a lot of games both in bots and 4Lancer against decent players (on PTS), here are my impressions for both SoloQ balancing and coordinated play. Obviously I am not going to comment over every single change, just Vonn, and the things that struck me as important, or could apply to more things.



    (TLDR) Overall, I think the changes are in the good direction, slightly over the top in some cases, which I will elaborate on later. But in general I appreciate the fact that the buffs to frontliners (and +2 Grey drone hype!) is starting to feel like a bit encouraging good FL players, allowing them to be sufficient threats to funnel teams. All-in-all, I am excited for the new season. Vonn seems balanced, slightly on the powerful side, but needs some minor QoL improvements.



    Changes to Frontliners

    As someone who liked pressuring teams, I enjoy the changes to the frontliners, I think the added damage numbers allow them to be significant problems to teams who accidentally clutter, or miss-position. In addition to that, the fact that they are massive danger zones now allows them to control the pace of the game and funnel teams more effectively. In general I welcome the change to the frontliners and I think it will bring back the "supports and FP" need to position properly because otherwise they will be forced to use resources that cannot keep up with the damage anymore.

    There are some overwhelming issues though.
    Isadora's primary is too powerful, when modded it deals around 30 damage, around walls, and effectively ignores cover making it slightly stronger than a zuki. Now granted that Isa doesn't have a damaging ulti like other frontliners that may be okay. But I still think the damage numbers are a bit high on that one.

    Rask's damage is interesting, however his ranges are a bit ridiculous, both on the knockback and the dash (was that intentional?) I think those are a bit overwhelming to deal with, at the very least the KB should be smaller (unmodded it already reaches a huge amount of squares), the dash is ok to keep imo but the KB is too much. Also the Rask dash+ult has ridiculous high damage considering it ignores cover.

    Garrison's cannon may be slightly overwhelming now, due to the 3 point mod mostly. He can apply large AoE every few turns. But thats kind of interesting, not particularly too overwhelming, but its a good thing to keep in mind and watch over, to see how it does.

    Rest of FLs seem well adjusted (Titus can now live up to his name, although his momentum dash might be overwhelming).

    Recall that in earlier seasons Supps and FPs had more options to kite frontliners, due to the vision mechanics. This might prove to be very problematic when applied to the new damage numbers. It might oversimplify the game a lot but we'll see.



    Vonn: The Scion of Ice

    Vonn looks quite well balanced to me, his damage numbers are pretty decent, slightly strong at the moment, but thats what we expect from non-dashers. I pretty much appreciate the changes to the shield mods since the last stream, the shield looks decent now, and not particularly overpowered. I still think the haste is too good, but thats just me. Now for QoL changes, I think his Cold Snap should not suffer from cover mitigation (ought to be similar to Asana's Retribution), also there are some weird cases where he deals 0 damage (FT transfer + cover I think) which might be buggy. I also think for QoL changes, we can add some variety to his Cold Snap, instead of the extra damage, we can maybe have reveal. That gives it utility. Although I do like the current mods as it can give a lot of flexibility in the build.

    The problematic thing with Vonn I see so far is the 3 turn ult. It is too overwhelming given that you can simply move it from way across the map, and control it for 3 turns. Granted you have to risk being not scrambled or killed at some point, but it still gives a ton of value in high probability which is not something we want. It is also an excellent tool to counter catalysts for 3 turns, as it counters fade (scouts a large area), counters TP to ally (because its an AoE so might hit the target), and in general has sufficient range to even reach a shift. Combined with the slow it is a bit overwhelming.

    Otherwise, I pretty much enjoy his kit, which seems to also be working in coordinated play, I think his AoE needs a .5 or 1 range nerf though, as I can hit weird angles with it.


    Changes to Firepowers

    The most interesting change I have seen is Grey's drone getting a +2, Yay! This is one of the changes I really like, I think the damage now is a major boost, given the changes in vision that made grey slightly weaker. I think Celeste's nerf on the healing cloud is in the right direction, since celeste is now immediately stronger since she can control might (you don't have to worry about those high damaging FLs stealing that early might and dictating the early game). Overall seem good. I probably have missed a thing or two here but thats just what I found to be the most interesting to talk about.

    Changes to Quark
    I pretty much think the changes to Quark might put him back to the play behind walls strategy (which quark players should do anyway), I think a quark that is aggressive with his tether can now die, finally. Also picking might will severely underheal the target, which is a good risk/reward mechanism. I find overall quark in the proper position he should be, slightly weaker perhaps than ideal, but at least now if he's not doing quarky things like maintaining tether from behind high walls, he can at least die (it will all be better!). So I have to say, I highly approve of the new quark changes.

    Things that are still problematic

    Firstly, Orion has no nerfs on the PTS, unless I am mistaken, but I did not notice any changes even if some were promised, we will have to see, I think Orion will need slighter nerfs than expected because he can get pretty destroyed by Frontliners otherwise. I think he just need lower ranges on FT/Heal, and/or slightly less HP pool.

    Secondly, the PuP nerfs might be okay-ish for soloq, but thats not what makes PuP an extremely strong pick in coordinated play. I want to elaborate on this point to provide perspective because I think its underrated what PuP can do when PuP is doing absolutely nothing.
    Firstly, one could argue that during the stealth PuP is doing nothing, and is therefore a momentum loss. This is not true, because during stealth PuP is providing vision, and for high level play this is crucial. Knowing what the enemy can see and what LoS they have is crucial for major decisions, notably dash decisions and cata decisions. Not knowing if the enemy can see you, puts effectively every single lancer on your team in threat range. And all PuP has to do is not do anything. Remember by knowing your position, the enemy immediately gets a massive advantage (they know where you can reach, what you can hit) and in the opposite sense, you do not know who to hit. And you won't know where the PuP will come out from. And whats even more fun, is that if the PuP chooses not to go out of stealth, then you are completely lost for 2 turns. This is significant momentum, and vision advantage. I want to firstly say that I understand the typical way to play around this, where people say put a ton of traps and whatnot, or simply "count". I don't think any of those are feasible strategies. Firstly, because a trap, means you are losing momentum, while PuP is losing none. Secondly if the PuP has haste, or chooses to move in another turn, you are screwed, there is no way you can predict what he can see nor where he is. And all it takes is one unexpected PuP ult to completely ruin a game (I have landed 3 man ults 2 double kills against really good players). Sure weak PuP players will autofollow making them predictable but in the hands of a good player PuP is a beast. So more importantly, it may seem that PuP is losing momentum for doing nothing for 2 turns, but in reality he is not, because (1) he is providing vision without being threatened, (2) he is positionning for higher damage output on the next turn, which recovers momentum (ult even swings momentum for 3+ turns, due to scramble and might and whatnot). And surprise kills is what mostly win games, in high level play.


    So seriously, PuP has massive advantage gain that is hard to counter, or more specifically a gamble to counter. So I would suggest the following changes that may counter the things I mentioned while not hitting the PuP hard:
    1. Prowl gives energized instead of might (similar to Kaigin nerf long ago). But I am fine as well with keeping the might so long as you do the next.
    2. Prowl last for 2 turns (down from 3), this ensures that the PuP has one full move turn to position properly, which reduces the risk the enemy team has to deal with, and improve prediction accuracy, not by an overwhelming majority. It also allows PuP to provide vision for 1 turn risk-less. Or can do 2 full moves but has to end up in a bush.
    3. Or at the very least, PuP loses the buffs on the second turn he moves.

  6. #6
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    Completely agree with Wiskerz' post. He basically summed up 80% of my thoughts about season 5. Careful with Isadora or you might create a 2 FL meta and a permaban in ranked

  7. #7
    Teamplayer here,

    Just want to chime in with my experience with pts and as a frontline main for a while. I proposed something similar buff at the end of season 3 with buffing frontliners about +2 damage across the board and lowering healing from healer by about 2 across the board and think this is almost an equivalent buff for frontlines which I've always felt needed a buff (well except the most selected 2-3).

    The biggest issue I think I have with the changes so far is pretty much all frontliners were buffed about the same across the board which means the tier strength of them will remain almost the same. Like asana was almost always the strongest frontline pick and she's buff about +4 across the board. Now leave her that way if you must, but make the likes of Garrison and Rampart more buffed, since garrison saw 1 game all season in ppl/tournaments and Rampart maybe 2-3x all year.

    I've always felt Garrison could use a tiny energy buff and Rampart could use a .25 range increase with the main part of his stick since hes to easily kitable. On top of that to make them more desirable on the tier scale I'd also buff damage a hair on Rampart's shield and garrisons dash.

    So I'd say Garrison +1 energy on his missile barrage (would amount to about 8-10 extra energy per 20 rounds, which is just about right) and his dash +2-3 extra so comparable damage wise with asana, brynne, and a couple other frontliners (his shield is there since his dash is more finicky and predictable already).

    Rampart +.25 range extension (this would allow him to hit diagonal 3 spaces and just in front for 4 space) and +3-5 damage increase on his shield

    I think if these guys are not buffed more the same tanks will remain meta, and even so with a little more buffs they still will be chosen less due to limitations to their kits.

  8. #8
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    Did we need to nerf rampart? I mean, even Gregerson stopped playing him in ranked, I think I was the only one left playing him.

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