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Thread: Rest in Peace Phaedra: The Phaedra nerfs, zuki still OP; and the new map.

  1. #1
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    Rest in Peace Phaedra: The Phaedra nerfs, zuki still OP; and the new map.

    hi everyone
    i'm Night, triple contender this season and competitive player for Imperium EU.
    So i can say i played the game 'quite a lot' and at least tell myself I know at least a little bit of what I am talking about.

    So here is my feedback on the nerfs and the consequential death of our beloved bug-lady.
    Mending swarm, the trademark ability of Phaedra got changed from soaking any damage she takes to only 30 a turn, 60 in total. I'm not saying she could not have needed a nerf and that this ability was very powerful indeed. But what this nerf does is not only make her significantly weaker, it takes away her core strength. her core identity ( mechanic wise ) and the thing people had to most play around when facing her. The question do we attack Phaedra or ignore her at all because our action could backfire wont be as important anymore. Sure, she will heal a bit but the significance is gone. There is no outplay potential anymore. No hard punish if you fail to predict. And that is one of the core features that make this game great.
    But just compare her mending swarm to a second dash. It just comes down to dodging a turn of damage. Sure, having two dashes is very strong but other lancers have it too.

    I remember the devs saying on stream that they didn't want to nerf super hard but rather adjust him step by step. Nerf a little bit here and there and see how it works out. If its too strong still they will look at it again. And that is exactly what they did. Consecutive small nerfs over a larger time span with enough time to see how every little change affected the lancer. And that is exactly the right approach. It worked out. The supremacy of quark got weakened over time and I think now he is in a good spot. I simply don't understand why they would abandoned that thoughtful approach for a heathstone-like nerf where they just gut the characters mainstyle and core-identity.

    A nerf was indeed needed, i think. Maybe tune down the healing to 80% total or if you have to cap it start with 50hp a turn for a total of 100 hp. That is still a huge nerf but it keeps the ability's core intact.
    And the main thing : I dont hink her healing was the overpowered part about her. Again, its a strong ability but you can easily play around it. And it separates the good Phaedra players from the bad and the good opponents from the bad who can play around that.
    A worse offender is the 2turn Putrid Swarm. Keeping that up for so long makes her just oppressive. But now that got buffed instead for some reason. Therefore instead of killing off mending swarm an adjustment to Putrid Swarm could be a better first step for now.
    In any case; This hard nerf takes away Phaedras defining and most fun ability and reduces it to a glorified delayed shield for two measly primary attacks.


    On that note. Why not nerf to Zuki? No real nerf, I mean.
    As of now the top 3 freelancers, the ones you have priority on banning in a ranked or competitive game are ( in that order ) zuki, phaedra, quark.
    Quark got nerfed again and with the buffs of other supports he lost his top spot i think.
    Pheadra is now dead.
    And Zuki reigns supreme with a sheepish grin from above.
    Zuki's kid remains overpowered and oppressive, compared to other firepowers. Her primary can shoot around corners and hit multiple people for frontliner damage.
    Her sticky bombs are great aoe and outstanding in vision and catalyst control.
    Her big one is one of the best area controls and has immense combo potential.
    Her dash is one of the best in the game, giving her the ability to not only get away but also get into bushes to get out of sight.
    And finally her ultimate has ( even with that 1 tile nerf) a great range to hit multiple people for massive damage.
    - the way it stands now she will take the spot that quark held a few weeks ago. Permabanned in every ranked game.
    And don't get me wrong. I love Zukis kid. her versatility is refreshing compared to other one dimensional lancers ( like the latest two releases)
    Just tuning down her damage on the aoe on her primary maybe would serve a good job at weakening one of her strength.
    Blackburn's primary hits for 34 ( with mod) while his spray deals only 20 to multiple people in a cone. Zuki however can deal up to 26 to the people she hits in the aoe. And therefore to people in cover. Therefore a change to that might be all it takes to tune her down enough.

    And finally the new map.
    Love the design and there are a few neat ideas with cover and bushes.
    But, dear lord, its HUGE. Flyway Freighter looks cozy compared to it. And Flyway is already a bit too large in my opinion.
    One of the things a big map encourages is running away. Running away and teams not meeting each other. And both these things mean one thing: No confrontation, no action. And without a centered objective that people need to compete over you can just run away once you are in the lead and hide.
    For example a main reason why competitive Atlas can be dull to watch at times ( and therefore hurting the eSports aspect of this game ) is that sometimes, when a team has a lead and there are only a few turns left to go, everyone just runs away, tries to survive and the team that is behind has no chance of catching up.
    I played a few games on it so far and even 2/3 of the map felt like that was a neat and big enough area. I doubt there will be any changes about it so this is just me posting it here so i can give you the old 'i told you so' later on.

    That's it for me. If feedback is listened to at all this is what i think should be thought about :
    TLR: Don't gut Phaedra. A nerf to her mending swarm is okay but keep her identity. Nerf Zukis aoe a little bit so she wont be the single best firepower by far. And think about the possible drawbacks of such a big new map that might take away fun and action from games.

    Thanks for reading. See ya around.
    Night

  2. #2
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    Yeah i very much agreed with the phaedra and zuki, phaedra most opresive tool was the putrid swarm imo, slows could last 2 turns or reveal as the player wanted to be modded, now is nerfed dealing less dmg and keeping the same duration as with the double turn mod, thats ok, except by lasting 2 turns and it would be a perfect nerf to her if you didn't kill her only regenerating ability like, seriusly, as night stated, a good Phaedra player or good players in general just play around her healing, ignoring her when she is really upclose when she is more likely to activate her regenerating ability, now even the meme that Rampart is the worst FL (not even close to that lol he is very good) it will be change to "lol Picking phaedra = troll pick" like lbh, i played a lot with meridian this morning on 4 star bots for both teams, Phaedra did a perfect mending swarm negating as much dmg as she could take, u know what is fun, she died the turn after coz she only healed 30 hp from the 120 she took the past turn, and just die due to focus 2 consecutive turns, she needed balances, but right now, she is extinct.

    And the Zuki thing, i don't understand why they don't nerf her AoE on primary is too damm powerfull, is like "oh u are behind a cover being a good positioned player? L O L let me shoot to the wall next to you and deal 26 dmg by the face she had little to no counterplay, unless u have a rampart and she uses stickies when u wall or something or she ults and u wall (unless she is running throu walls mod) and the dash Night pointed it very good but forget another thing, her dash deals 20 dmg so yeah zuki is the most newbie friendly FP imo, with low punishment and great rewards, good zukis destroy good asanas, or any support in general just be using stickies when they shield, and free big one is a mandatory mod, even with the 2 extra CD is just too good to no use.

    And the blackburn nerfs? Why? Is because of the new catas? because i don't understand why u keep nerfing him.

  3. #3
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    Devs do NOT play as much as the core player base let alone at a highest level or in the competitive scene. This already leads me to believe, after looking at the changes to Phaedra, that they were unqualified to raise the nerf bat this time on her specifically without raising some injustices. I'll just keep this shorter and related to the thread. Her mending swarm is NOT what made her the overwhelming, permabanned lancer that she is today. Granted, it is a strong ability but maybe split the heal in 3 turns??? Just a thought. It was the easy-mode 2 turn bugs that caused panic and disarray against enemy teams. Left punished OR unpunished, Phaedra was able to secure all the bug procs as easy as 123. Mending on the other hand, is a unique part of her kit that granted her one turn of negated dmg (split into 2 following turns of heals the following). This was a mechanic that allowed her to play that one turn differently than the other Frontliners. Oh didn't I mention the big CD on it and the ability to play against it without major consequences? It is one turn of negated dmg so you can choose to either: 1) hit for energy because Phaedra will still be at the same HP regardless 2) Apply CC's 3) split up and/or double move (which is countered by 2 turn bugs) 4) hit someone else. From my experience, swarm has not kept her alive longer than other frontliners in the grand scheme of things. She can be easily focused outside of that one turn. Re-reading these changes...they seem to tailor towards the casual player base in terms of lowering the impact she has in the hands of the average, larger portion of the population.

  4. #4
    I welcome these nerfs, good job. She's still able to find cata/dashed players like no other tank. Has a potential 60 damage shield (oh boo hooo) has damage of garries punch at his range +extra through wall range. Geeez, she's fn fine. Just not monster OP, banned.

  5. #5
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    Light being fed up with stuff

    I'm going to go on a quick rant because I feel this post touches on a lot of the problems in competitive AR at the moments
    1. Phaedra: Starting with mending swarm, its an oppressive and un-fun ability for newer and non-competitive players and it got nerfed to a free action 60 heal! people need to stop complaining about that. Putrid spray was definitely the biggest offender at a higher level and while its now base 2 turns it also does 5 less dmg, not the change I would have made but its fine.
    2. Zuki: I'll start off by admitting that I don't like Zuki and up until 3 weeks ago would never even have considered playing her but after everyone praising her as the second coming I decided to play her some more. I realized that she does the most dmg of any fp in the game currently and when uncontested wins games on her own, I also remembered why I hate her. Her dash is far from the best or great, it is extremely predictable and has a 6 turn cd. She has no way to diffuse pressure on her without weaken stickies and in general dies to dive and pressure, if someone want to tell me otherwise I would love to read it. (Yes she does dmg though cover, so do lw celeste bb grem ext) Also the only player that doesn't die to dive when playing her is Arctic and I feel they are a large exception in this game.
    3: New map (and the concept of running away): AR is not an E-Sport! With that out of the way I love the new map, it looks cool, feels cool, has good lore and flavor, and is vastly different than every other map in the game, ty Trion. As far as running away is concerned I agree, I agree that the game could use an objective to start fights early in the game but the fact that the competitive community at large thinks that running with a lead is bad baffles me. When a team gets a lead its normally because the played better when it matters and if they get far enough ahead to get 2 kills up on you they probably deserve the win running or no running, again this game is not an E-Sport and Trion has not reason to treat it as such.
    4: My brief opinions on the changes: Pheadra is alive, why buff rask, why buff aurora, quark is fine he is now more fine, good to see finn love, khita changes are unexpected but good, zuki never was as broken as people said but good changes, why nerf bb, I love juno. Rant over

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zargash View Post
    I welcome these nerfs, good job. She's still able to find cata/dashed players like no other tank. Has a potential 60 damage shield (oh boo hooo) has damage of garries punch at his range +extra through wall range. Geeez, she's fn fine. Just not monster OP, banned.
    What are u even contributing to the thread? Phaedra is easilly predictable especially when she wants to heal for me u are just dumb or stupid, phaedra was never near the bans sequence where was always quark and a second support khita or a strong FP like LW Celeste.

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