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  Click here to go to the first Atlas Reactor Team post in this thread.   Thread: Make Extraction Permanent Already!

  1. #1
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    Make Extraction Permanent Already!

    EDIT: Since I think people were taking this wrong, I don't want Extraction to replace TDM, I just want us to have BOTH.

    This is just getting absurd. First we have one week where extraction is playable, and it specifically says that this is a preview of a new featured game mode. During that week the que was practically exploding, over a mode that was listed as needing further testing. Then it's gone for months, finally comes back, and once again, it breaths tactical life back into the game. Now it's replaced by some joke Support-Only brawl mode?

    You are casually throwing away the most interesting mode this game has ever had. Don't misunderstand, it's not that Deathmatch isn't a stable and enjoyable mode. It is. However a simple who-kills-who can never achieve the kind of depth that a mode with an actual objective can. The introduction of the case gives players something to orient around, instead of just following enemies around the field. It allows for utility other than killing power and sustain to have large impacts on the match. For example, when is the last time you saw Adrenaline change the match in Deathmatch? Positioning becomes more than managing a sight line, since teams have to try and actually control space (the space around the case, and the extraction zones) which makes the strength of options (Freelancers, mods, catalysts) come down to more than destructive potential and occasional safety.

    Team coordination becomes deeper too. The questions aren't just how much damage do we need and, for supports, are you bailing or am I helping you. Those are still important questions, but players also have to ask how they are keeping case control. Are we trying to pass it off? Drop it for now? Take it back? Some of the fondest (and yes, occasionally most frustrating) moments I have had playing this game came down to a team coordinating a perfect set of dashes to whisk the case out of reach. Equal are moments when I foresaw these plans and foiled them with a dash of my own.

    I understand the appeal of a special rotating mode. The silly game modes like Supportal-Kombat are perfect for that. I just don't understand why Extraction is being used there instead of just being part of the game, and whole-heartedly believe that Atlas Reactor is worse off for it. I even know friends that I got into the game who will not play with me unless we play Extraction, because it's so much more compelling; and there is only so many times people will come back.

  2. #2
    Yeah, I'm really not liking that all the new modes are just silly random changes rather than anything with tactical depth.

    Everybody plays the same lancer!

    Everybody does like a million damage and ults every other turn!

    I think that's a good idea to put that stuff in the "rotation" but leave Extraction as its own queue. I'm just going to keep playing Deathmatch.

  3. #3
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    Extraction is the best game mode *evar*.

  4. #4
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    Extraction definitely has a following, but it's easily one of the most poorly balanced alternative game-modes Atlas has ever had. The games devolve into less of "who has the most skill" and more of "who has the most Freelancers who are broken in this mode." The "meta" for Extraction is extremely dull and the same 6-7 Freelancers come up every game, since every other Freelancer is statistically a worse choice.

    I'd love it if Custom Games allowed you to enable some of the alternative game-modes to play with friends and/or create lobbies online. I'd be more than willing to set up a lobby with a few people to goof around in Overpowered Up or something. But I don't think extraction should become a permanent addition. It would only be played by the die-hard fans of the game-mode and a few newcomers who want to try it out. It would become the Mann V.S. Machine (TF2) or Twisted Treeline (LoL) of Atlas Reactor.

  5. #5
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    Although I love it to death, I'm not sure I feel the queue can support a permanent extraction mode (outside of custom, of course, where I believe it's already permanent.) And you may well be right about the niche audience.

    But we used way more than just 6-7 freelancers. Hell, we worked on the Helio corps quests while winning extraction. It's much less to do with specific freelancers than team coordination and a good balance of case control and offense. Team comps are a little different than in deathmatch, but still quite varied. (Two frontliner is more common, for example.)

    That said, I do think there is some balance issue with the mode I can't quite put my finger on. We've won on turn 11 (or was it even 10?) a couple of times in extraction, and I don't think I've ever done that in deathmatch (even if the opposition has a bot.) A team of randoms vs a coordinated team with voice chat is at an even bigger disadvantage than in deathmatch.

    I wonder if there'd be interest in an Extraction tournament?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujo View Post
    Although I love it to death, I'm not sure I feel the queue can support a permanent extraction mode (outside of custom, of course, where I believe it's already permanent.) And you may well be right about the niche audience.

    But we used way more than just 6-7 freelancers. Hell, we worked on the Helio corps quests while winning extraction. It's much less to do with specific freelancers than team coordination and a good balance of case control and offense. Team comps are a little different than in deathmatch, but still quite varied. (Two frontliner is more common, for example.)

    That said, I do think there is some balance issue with the mode I can't quite put my finger on. We've won on turn 11 (or was it even 10?) a couple of times in extraction, and I don't think I've ever done that in deathmatch (even if the opposition has a bot.) A team of randoms vs a coordinated team with voice chat is at an even bigger disadvantage than in deathmatch.

    I wonder if there'd be interest in an Extraction tournament?
    <--- Interested

    And, as I've stated previously in these forums and on Reddit, the game needs a dedicated, objective based map. I just don't think Team Deathmatch alone is enough to sustain the game for the long term.

  7.   Click here to go to the previous Atlas Reactor Team post in this thread. Click here to go to the next Atlas Reactor Team post in this thread.   #7
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    A major reason this isn't replacing TDM is because of the learning curve of this game. If new players had to jump into Extraction, without understanding the basics of the TDM experience, it would be an even more steep learning curve.

    TDM is a great way to enter the strategic and mechanical space of Atlas Reactor. From there, once they have a strong grasp, they can step into Extraction and all of the extra strategy it brings.

  8. #8
    Good, honest responses from multiple devs = super cool.

  9. #9
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    First of all, thanks both Muzzy and Xevo for replying. As was just said that's really cool to see.

    I agree with Muzzy, I defiantly don't want to see TDM *leave*, not by a long shot. It's simplicity is certainly great for learning how to play., and I know that there are plenty of people who would want to play it too, or even just it. Heck, I know I am waving Extractions flag here, but even I would likely still play DM occasionally. I want them both to stick around, not lose one for the other.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzy View Post
    A major reason this isn't replacing TDM is because of the learning curve of this game. If new players had to jump into Extraction, without understanding the basics of the TDM experience, it would be an even more steep learning curve.

    TDM is a great way to enter the strategic and mechanical space of Atlas Reactor. From there, once they have a strong grasp, they can step into Extraction and all of the extra strategy it brings.
    So why not have both and gate extraction behind something? (reactor level, games played, lancers owned, etc.)
    I'd love to see extraction stay permanently, since it's my favorite gamemode so far.

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