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Thread: Juno's Ulti could use a lot of love.

  1. #1

    Juno's Ulti could use a lot of love.

    I've played this game a lot in alpha/beta and have a good understanding of what makes a character viable in high level play and not.

    1. Is a good kit, Juno has this, although ideally she would have a dash, but shes got a pretty good shield. And maybe buff her to 160, but that would make her way to powerful in randoms.

    2. Is a good ulti that can impact the game and or can be cordinated with other ultis to focus someone whos overextended or used their dash, Juno does not have this.

    Not only does Juno's ulti do low damage for an ulti but it locks you in place. This will get you killed against any semi cordinated team or knowledgable player. (yes its unique in that it can persists but that hardly outweights its get you killed factor).

    I'm not sure the exact numbers that should be changed, but for certain she needs to be able to move after using what ever ulti turns out to be. I'd like to see the uniqueness of being able to use the ulti at 50-100 energy points.

    One idea is to have her ulti do say 38-40 damage in a sweeping arch that persists till the end of move phase (or even next dash phase) so she hits someone who happens to move through it during move phase or perhaps makes someone who has a dash have limited options. The targets would aslo be weakend till end of next turn.

    This would allow her to have some interesting pressure/utilitiy at earlier phases then other characters along with a little utility that would add to her and teams survivability.
    Last edited by Zargash; 10 hours ago

  2. #2
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    I'm not at my home computer at the moment, so I can't go into this in depth (and I can't find anywhere online that lists out Juno's damage numbers or Mods). I'll post again after I get home to give comparisons. But note that Juno is one of my favorite characters right now.

    On to the Counterpoints.

    1.) Juno's Ultimate, as a single-use, costs half the Energy that any other Ults do - every other Ult in the game so far requires the full 100 Energy, and not a drop less.

    2.) Using the Ultimate for several turns in a row (at reduced cost!) drastically ramps up the damage potential of the attack. Instead of being solely a straight-line beam, it becomes a sweep, that has the potential to damage everyone in a 90 degree arc, not just the people in the start and finish lines. In addition, if you sustain the beam, you'll also damage anyone who Dashes across the beam.

    3.) While being immobile is a risk, it comes with benefits as well - while she's still got her Ultimate active, she's Unstoppable, and immune from being knocked back, knocked down, stunned, or Pulled. If she's in cover while doing the Ultimate, that greatly reduces the risks.

    4.) Her Riot Shield gives her a significant amount of defense while she's rooted in place.

    Now 1 and 2 combined are worth looking at seriously. If Juno waits until she has 100 Energy (like other Freelancers), she can do the Ultimate for three full turns in a row. I'm not positive, but I believe that I saw her gaining energy from hits with the Ultimate's beam, which would allow it to go for up to four turns in a row (and maybe more, if she's getting multiple hits continuously). Regardless, I can say from personal experience that I've sustained her Ultimate through three turns and survive the experience quite nicely.

    But even without the sustain ability, point 1 alone is a reason that Juno's ultimate doesn't need to be brought up to a similar damage as other Freelancers' Ultimates. Juno's ultimate costs half the cost of others. Therefore, it can be used at least twice as often as other Freelancers.

    And, finally, you need to consider more than just this one ability. Just as you can't look at a single character's numbers alone to decide whether that character is overpowered, and must actually compare against other characters' abilities, so too do you need to compare ALL of a hero, not just the Ultimate, against ALL of another hero. One power that seems unusually powerful might be a trade-off against another power that is weaker. Also, every power has the so-obvious-we-don't-notice-it "cost" of taking up a turn's action. Turns when you're doing an Ultimate is a turn you're NOT doing some other ability. So it would be better to consider the damage potential of Juno's 3-turn Ultimate sweeping against her own Ult -> Barrage -> Off Limits, or Lockwood's Ult -> Light 'Em Up > Trick Shot, or any other three-turn combination.

    I think that considering all of the above, Juno is reasonably in-line, overall. Despite her being one of my favorite characters, I DON'T think she needs to be buffed.

    - - - - -

    As with anything in the game, Juno's ultimate requires both strategy and adaptability. Sweeping the beam isn't always the best choice - sometimes you do need to get out of Dodge more than you need to hit again with it. If a target's Dash is ready (if they even HAVE a dash), you may be better off switching to a different attack - or applying Lockdown to your target instead of hitting them again immediately.

    My current build for Juno uses the Ultimate Mod called Heating Up (or something like that) which causes the beam to do more damage in subsequent turns. I like to wait until I have at least 90 Energy, then hit with the beam. If I still have targets in range after the first hit, I burn my Might Catalyst, so that I get two different ways of increasing the beam's base damage - if that hits, the person it hits is going to be in a WORLD of hurt.

    Edit: Consider that Juno is weak against characters with high mobility, but she's quite strong against characters with no inherent Dash (Nix, Helio, Aurora, Rampart, Dr Finn, Orion, Juno herself). I've used Juno's Ultimate to burn an Aurora down from full health in three turns (with teammates' help to keep her in range, of course).

  3. #3
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    How much energy does her ult take when you DONT move it? The tooltip does not say anything. It just says 50 to start it and 20 to sweep it. I just have one game that we lost because I expected to be able to keep it up by not moving it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifandbut View Post
    How much energy does her ult take when you DONT move it? The tooltip does not say anything. It just says 50 to start it and 20 to sweep it. I just have one game that we lost because I expected to be able to keep it up by not moving it.
    It costs the same to "sweep" it zero degrees as it does to go 90 degrees with it - 20 energy. The cost is to sustain, not to sweep. Perhaps the wording could be improved, but I don't see a problem with that. They don't intend for you to have a flaming beam of fire completely blocking up a bunch of tiles for more than a few turns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifandbut View Post
    How much energy does her ult take when you DONT move it? The tooltip does not say anything. It just says 50 to start it and 20 to sweep it. I just have one game that we lost because I expected to be able to keep it up by not moving it.
    You cannot sustain the beam without moving/activating it. I suppose you could use it and sweep the beam "in place," but taking any action other than the 20 energy beam recast will end the effect.

  6. #6
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    Ok, I guess they should change the term then...something like "Sustain" because it is deceiving. I realize there should be an energy cost, it just is not clear that not activating the skill (and thus not moving the beam) is the same thing as "sweeping" it.

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    But you ARE activating the skill - you have to actually click the power for it to be "On" for the next turn. If it was automatic, I could see the confusion, but you have to actually decide to continue the power.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekojin View Post
    But you ARE activating the skill - you have to actually click the power for it to be "On" for the next turn. If it was automatic, I could see the confusion, but you have to actually decide to continue the power.
    Yep, your right. I assumed because of the style of attack that it was a toggle able and if I did not want to move it I did not need to activate it. Misunderstanding on my part.

  9. #9
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    She still gains the standard 5 energy per turn while she has ult up. So if she starts at at least 95 energy she can get 4 rounds of ult in.

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